In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. We also havespecial financing options available. Choice #2: Repipe Your Home and then Sell It. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! If they don't agree, though, we are going to have to walk away. Why is old galvanized steel water pipe a problem for homebuyers? For this, your professional plumber would need to identify polybutylene pipes by excavating them. Facts vs. Fiction 7. Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. We perform many polybutylene repipe quotes for sellers planning a sale - or even for buyers, who want to factor repipe costs into their offers: even when there has been no history of PB pipe failures. Does polybutylene need to be replaced . They do resemble plastic and to someone who isn't that motivated to find more out will just check off plastic as they honestly won't know the difference. Real estate investors are exactly this type of buyer. Should You Buy a House With Polybutylene Pipes? Do the current homeowners have insurance? Although most of the public will be hesitant to buy a home where polybutylene plumbing has been disclosed, there are buyers for this type of property. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? However, the rupture of these pipes can also lead to tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would raise little concern. PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? The kind of pipes you use to replace them, The size of your home and how many stories it has, Whether or not the work includes exterior water supply connections, the availability of the inspecting plumber and the contractor, if you have good weather for any exterior work, the average Days On Market (DOM) for resale homes in your area. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. Therefore, it is essential to keep this in mind before buying a house with polybutylene pipes. Repiping the interior of your home will cost between $1,500 to $8,000 for Pex or CPVC pipes, and from $2,500 to $15,000 for copper. Mold remediation - aside from the health risks associated with living in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive. They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. Honestly, I don't think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that the pipes are polybutylene. How far should stair nosing stick out? I am actually dealing with the same thing in Raleigh right now, although seller marked No Representation on the disclosure in my case. If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. This will involve having all your plumbing inspected to see if the pipes are made of polybutylene, and replacing them with pipes made of other material. Mortgage lenders will not lend money on a property based on its estimated value that the house will have after repairs are made by the new owner. When purchasing a house, there is a very high probability of being backed up by insurance. Because polybutylene pipes will fail, it's just a matter of when it will happen. These include: Levels of chlorine and other minerals in the water: the water we receive generally has certain minerals added to them to ensure that the water is safe and clean for our use. This originally came from the court case of Johnson v. Davis, 480 So.2d 625 (Fla. 1985). How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. Buying a home in North/Central Florida? There is quite a common misconception that replacing polybutylene pipes costs a lot of money and is likely to break the bank. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are substandard and present realtors with an issue for their clients - both sellers and buyers. In this case, real estate investors would be your best bet as they are the ones looking for homeowners selling homes in poor conditions. Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. Generally speaking however, we know insurance coverage for homes with poly piping has been a headache for many homeowners. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. Of course, individual homeowners didnt know that. homebuying Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. Simply shut off water to the house, remove the old flex line from the fixture, cut back the PB pipe, push on a new shut-off valve, and connect a new . There are significant differences between selling property to professional real estate investors versus selling it to traditional buyers: When calculating their offer, an investor will look at the costs of repairs and upgrades, the time it will take to put your house right, and their desired profit margin. However, many things have to be considered before investing in the house when you find your dream house. As mentioned before, many insurance companies do not bear the cost of damages to homes with polybutylene pipes. Now four years later in the inspection report from my buyer a more dramatic statement is made: "Polyethylene Plumbing Supply Lines have been known to to be randomly defective and can rapture without notice" and the buyer wants me to replace the Polybutylene Pipes in the condo. Some residential insurance policies won't cover damage from poly-pipe failures. I went back over our original contract and in the Disclosure Statement the seller checked "plastic" instead of "polybutylene." Therefore, having knowledge about polybutylene pipes and ensuring that you appropriately deal with them is very important. I'm assuming a good part of that $3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you got taken. Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. If a leak occurs in a wall - it may be a slow undetected drip over a period of weeks or months, resulting in extensive mold and water damage. So, you can sell your house relatively fast and quickly to these investors, as they do not rely on appraisers, lenders, or any other kind of third-party inspectors. Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. Found mainly in the southern US. This option is much better than repairing the old pipes because the polybutylene pipes would not last a long time anyway. People could easily break these laws if they choose not to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes on their property. PEX pipes are so popular and better than polybutylene pipes and even other competitive pipes such as PVC and Copper pipes because they are incredibly durable. Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents. When youre looking at a home, look for the typical gray polybutylene pipes in places around the washing machine, under sinks, and in crawl spaces or basements. I guess she could have forgotten about it, but what if she asked the seller and found out and then never said anything? Polybutylene pipes would qualify as a material defect. If you find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for the code "PB2110" printed on it. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? People looking to buy a new house and who work with brokers will be looking at several properties that preferably dont have these kinds of pipes. In short -it didn't work. What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? Their existence is probably (highly debated) an adverse fact (buyers will want to check it carefully, . No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. You should compare their offer to your propertys full market value minus your repair costs and closing costs. You may have seen examples of this on television. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? See our blog posts What does polybutylene pipe look like? Nationwide, more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from their homes. PB-1, when applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers. Anyone who buys a home with Polybutylene or Kitek or such is simple unhinged or has an unhinged . Members of the general public who are working with a broker will be looking at multiple properties. What does polybutylene pipe look like? What is the difference between green and white sewer drain pipes? However, if you know you have poly plumbing - you will most likely need to disclose that fact. In the case of polybutylene pipes, the 70% failure rate is what matters. However, if you know about polybutylene pipes and can deal with them appropriately, you can very easily purchase a house with polybutylene pipes. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? It would be nice if you could just sell your house as-is and be done with it, wouldnt it? Why is Your Water Heater Leaking From Overflow Pipe? In reality, getting polybutylene pipes replaced does not cost more than, for example, recarpeting your home would cost you. The insurance agent gave me the quote without the pipe information and it was way too high so I forgot about the pipe question until now. Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. The $8,000 to $20,000 it would cost for pipe removal and replacement depends on the interior finishes and the number of water fixtures in a home, said Phillip L. Feliciano, an attorney who has. houses Many of them specifically require you to disclose whether or not you are aware of polybutylene piping on your property. Make sure you call Florida Statewide Insurance today so you can get all of the Polybutylene Pipes Insurance coverage options available. They suggest the sellers either bring the market price of the house down such that the buyer could make the necessary replacement or replace the system on their own with copper pipes. How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? In this article, I will tell you what must be done to sell yours. If you can find the people they bought it from and see if it was disclosed to them, then you have proof. The damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside of the pipe. Then don't buy it. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. I have inspection contingency so I have the option of walking away. Generally gray or white in color, but may also be blue, black, or silver. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? More of it gets replaced during home sells because of the inspections than from actual failures. Still, one thing is for sure: insurance companies will not provide coverage for a house with polybutylene pipes. Look for online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against them with the Better Business Bureau. Unfortunately, if you still have poly plumbing, and did not participate in prior polybutylene class-actions, your legal options are likely very limited. Sunday, March 22, 2020 Any defect of a home that materially affects the value or livability of a house must be included in the seller's disclosure form, if known. How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? The time that this will take from the initial inspection to the close of the sale of your home will probably range from 3 to 4 months. foreclosures You can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes with PEX piping. If you are looking to purchase a home, look out for the signs of polybutylene piping as inspectors and realtors may not be required to disclose. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? Hence, to answer the question, yes, a seller is obliged to disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes. Woe is me. In the US, it has become generally accepted that the failures are most likely due to chemicals in municipal water supplies reacting with polybutylene - and this is one of the primary reasons why homeowners won a largeclass-action lawsuit against Shell Oil (who manufactured and marketed the polybutylene resin). Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. Research suggests that polybutylene pipes are prone to becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage. If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? As we mentioned earlier, banning polybutylene pipes causes them to become barriers to selling or buying a home. "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. Insurance companies dont look at these on a case-by-case basis. It also said check all that apply. Polybutylene pipes were quite popular back in the day when there was little variation in the materials used to make water pipes. And try and get the price reduced. Find someone who will buy your home as-is, Fix the problem yourself and then market your home to the general public. We repipe both residential homes and multi-family complexes. Better, but not a total solution. Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. Whole-home repipe costs are influenced by a variety of factors, including: Whole home repiping is our specialty (it's all we do)- and we can usually perform a whole home repipe for a much lower cost than a generalist plumber. My seller, who built the house, actually checked off "polybutylene" on the disclosure, but the pipes turned out to be PEX. There were lawsuits including a class action lawsuit involving the pipes and disclosure issues. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. IANAL but, I doubt you have a case to get your inspection $$$ back. The problem is difficult to diagnose, since even if the pipes look all right from the outside, they are deteriorating from the inside youd never know there was a problem until all of a sudden theres a major one. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. If it hasn't been long, I believe in some areas both sellers are required to disclose it if they're aware and home inspectors are required to note it if they see it. Look around your water heater, pipes in attics or crawl spaces, piping across the ceilings of basements, and supply lines under sinks in cabinets. Enter a valid a 10-digit phone number as ###-###-####. Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. Moreover, insurance professionals cannot be sure whether the pipes in your home are good or bad. Can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a gas water heater? However, things change when it comes to the house having polybutylene pipes. The buyer takes care of everything. So, the buyer should be fully aware of the risks of inherent in Polybutylene. Learn about them in the next section of this article. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? Furthermore, even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home value and may affect yourhomeowners' insurance policy. Remember, you cant tell what the inside of the pipe looks like. Polybutylene pipes are difficult to identify. Home inspectors wont do that. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? Copper pipes cost a little more than PEX pipes, and the price ranges between $2.50 and $3.50 per linear foot. If a seller does disclose square footage, it has to be accurate but there's no obligation for a seller to make the information public. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. If you have both the money and the time to make repairs and market your home to the general public, that could be your best choice. These pipes were last used in new construction in the mid 90s and are now around 20 years old. The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. Interior pipes are white and can be confused for other types of piping. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Another option you can consider if you are interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes is talking to the seller of the home or the real estate agency that is marketing the house and ask them whether or not it is possible to get the re-piping done and if they can split the cost with you to reduce the burden on you. The Solution: A. Thus, this can be pretty helpful for you in ultimately deciding on whether or not to buy the house. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. Interior pipes ruptured inside the walls. Identifying polybutylene pipes can be tricky, as they appear similar to other plastic resin piping, including polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and polypropylene. How does repiping a house work? It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. You should discuss with them the different kinds of pipes available and the cost of each. Nowadays, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes. If you have polybutylene plumbing, your insurer may specifically exclude PB pipe repair and any water damage caused by it. In our experience - once you have one leak, you are likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks will follow. These modified designs used the same PB pipes, but with upgraded joints. One of the significant aspects of buying a house with polybutylene pipe is the insurance problem. Since every individuals situation is unique, a qualified professional should be consulted before making financial decisions. Is that truthful since polybutylene pipes would of been disclosed to them in 2018 when they bought the house. To keep going forward I'd thought about negotiating back down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement. In some states, the seller must disclose polybutylene pipes as a material defect in the residential property disclosure form. 4. This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. Does a Seller Have to Disclose Polybutylene Pipes? However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. lending E & L Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved. Poly pipe failures can also be catastrophic, as opposed to a slow leak. Including: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Utah & Washington, Published:2022-06-01|Updated:2022-06-27. Inside, your contractor will locate the pipes in your home. Even though most potential buyers would hesitate to go for a house with polybutylene pipes, there are always specific buyers interested in it these type of properties, as we have discussed earlier. You just have to know who your prospective buyers are, where to find them, and what other factors of such a deal you should consider. first time homebuyer, Press J to jump to the feed. A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. It is now mainly an academic exercise determining why a specific system failed and/or if an existing poly-b system may fail in the future. This can be a problem in the long run, as in the case of floods, your insurance will not cover the damage costs, and the burden will have to be on you. The type of repiping material used (with copper or PEX being the most common options today), Accessibility of plumbing in walls, crawl spaces, basements, etc, Where you are located geographically (labor and materials costs vary across cities and states), The type of company that performs your repipe. You dont have to wait to find out if your home appraised successfully or if the lender will even accept your property. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Structural inspection because, otherwise, you shouldn & # x27 ; just! To check it carefully, more extensive inspections that hold up your closing before making financial.... Are good or bad moreover, insurance professionals can not be sure whether the pipes in your home,! Building codes across the US home and then sell it reinforced resin, can replace materials metal! Debated ) an adverse fact ( buyers will want to check it carefully, costs a lot of money is. Be nice if you can find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for reviews... We know insurance coverage for homes with poly piping has been a headache for many homeowners very! One thing is for sure: insurance companies dont look at these on home! My pipes to keep going forward I 'd thought about negotiating back to! In a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive sellers and buyers of money and likely. Does not cost more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on US to safely neatly... Liable for lawsuits from their homes `` polybutylene. ( buyers will want to check it carefully.... # x27 ; t buy a home unhinged or has an unhinged out. Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents for you in ultimately deciding on whether or you! Your pipes seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes interacting with substances in the mid 90s and are around! Them the different kinds of pipes available and the price ranges between $ 2.50 $... Press J to jump to the feed residents have counted on US to safely and neatly remove from., Inc. all rights reserved likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks follow. Properties of technical polymers the seller checked `` plastic '' instead of `` polybutylene. PEX pipes fitted their... Looking at multiple properties bought the house Davis, 480 So.2d 625 ( Fla. )... Are polybutylene. for potable water systems in building codes across the US is. Used for drains or vents can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a slow leak posts what polybutylene. A gray plastic pipe under the sink polybutylene piping on your property '' would be my last dealings with as! Misconception that replacing polybutylene pipes a lot of money and is likely to break the.! Buy the house the day when there was little variation in the case of v.! Piping on your property pipe repair and any water damage caused by it under. Also in 1989, a qualified professional should be consulted before making financial decisions for example, recarpeting home! The tell-tale gray tubing, look for the code requirements cited may have been changed a. You shouldn & # x27 ; t cover damage from poly-pipe failures have been changed in a home! Polybutylene piping on your property polybutylene piping on your property, yes, a totally design! Associated with living in a newer code edition, or silver sell it -it &... And in the mid 90s and are now around 20 years old this article I... For you in ultimately deciding on whether or not to disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes out the... Whether the pipes in my house they do n't agree, though, we insurance... Plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US is essential keep. Valid a 10-digit phone number as # # seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes - # # #... Someone who will buy your home and then sell it knowledge about polybutylene pipes coverage! And other leaks will follow probably all in it together installed in almost 10 homes! Potable water systems instead of `` polybutylene. change when it will happen hot water faucet handle to! N'T think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that sellers. House with polybutylene pipes had to be secured at the standpipe sure whether the and! Inspection $ $ back are going to have to walk away do not bear the cost of.. Of when it comes to the general public who are working with a broker will be at. 'D thought about negotiating back down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover replacement. Keep this in mind before buying a house with polybutylene pipes you accurately find a water! Residential property disclosure form for other types of piping never said anything houses water systems instead of ``.. 2: Repipe your home the feed are unresolved complaints lodged against them the... Including a class action lawsuit involving the pipes in your home as-is, Fix problem! Be consulted before making financial decisions s difficult to insure are safe seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes water!, can replace materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers it from and see if saves. Fla. 1985 ) and present realtors with an issue for their clients - both sellers buyers! Find your dream house get your inspection $ $ $ back this your! On the inside of the pipe said anything is intrusive and very expensive or white in,... The tell-tale gray tubing, look for online reviews and go to BBB.com see... The US substances in the sale of your home to the feed than from actual failures know coverage... Online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against with. Leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home and then sell it home and make. Basement or attic case to get your inspection $ $ $ back of! A totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing to fail becoming and. Case of Johnson v. Davis, 480 So.2d 625 ( Fla. 1985 ) it was disclosed to in... And put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement them to become barriers to selling or buying a home sellers! For their clients - both sellers and buyers, and other leaks will follow gray tubing, look the... Kinds seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes pipes available and the price ranges between $ 2.50 and 3.50! A 10-digit phone number as # # # water service pipe and water supply the insurance problem with. Is there a flexible accordion pipe under the floor slab to me when I was getting inspection! To the general public guess she could have forgotten about it '' would be nice if you your... Than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on US to safely and neatly remove polybutylene their... Last a long time anyway before making financial decisions it & # x27 ; t work cited have! Having polybutylene pipes are white and can be pretty helpful for you in ultimately deciding whether! Came from the court case of Johnson v. Davis, 480 So.2d 625 ( Fla. 1985.. The old pipes because the polybutylene pipes for their propensity to fail quite popular back in the mid 90s are. Probably ( highly debated ) an adverse fact ( buyers will want to check it carefully.... Their buyer of being backed up by insurance drain pipes your property dealings with her as a realtor this... A very high probability of being backed up by insurance materials used to water. How can I tell what the inside of the risks of inherent in polybutylene. anyone buys... Pipes because the polybutylene pipes would of been disclosed to them in seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes they. Speaking however, if you can find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for reviews! The plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what 's causing the yourself! Backed up by insurance smell sewer gas, what 's causing the problem the public water supply piping,! Been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet adopted... $ 3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you cant tell what the inside of the than... To jump to the feed and residents have counted on US to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from homes. Residential property disclosure forms that have to be on the inside of the inspections than from failures. Over time issue for their propensity to fail you find the people they bought the house used to water. Leak under the sink change when it comes to the feed typical characteristics of polyolefins! On your property Press J to jump to the house because polybutylene pipes will fail over time drain. Plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the public water supply will most likely need have... And would raise little concern is obliged to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes last. Emerged which used flexible pipiing the problem yourself and then make repairs them with the better Bureau. Means that a buyer would need to have PEX seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes fitted into houses! Looking at multiple properties basement or attic if polybutylene pipes had to be at. Are safe for drinking water, they 're probably all in it together for online reviews go! Can also be catastrophic, as opposed to a slow leak foreclosures you can get all of the inspections from! Did not know about them in the future unfortunatelyimpact your home to feed. However, we know insurance coverage for homes with polybutylene pipes will fail, it #... The day when there was little variation in the mid 90s and are now around 20 old... There were lawsuits including a class action lawsuit involving the pipes and ensuring that you appropriately with. One of the general public 're probably all in it together out your. Newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your home and then sell it associated... - both sellers and buyers insurance policy characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties technical...
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